How To Use Metrics


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It’s funny, most entrepreneurs know they should be managing their business by the numbers, but the truth is under the hood of most entrepreneurs’ spreadsheets is absolute mayhem.

If you ask them about a particular metric, they really cannot tell you.

If you try to find it in their tracking systems, it’s so convoluted and unreliable, that you cannot have high believability in it.

Making decisions off of dirty data is like driving your car with the windshield caked in dirt — you kind of know where you’re going, but there’s a high chance your going to crash eventually.

That’s no way to manage a company at scale.

Here’s the good news: managing the metrics is easier than most think!

It’s easy to get lost in a sea of numbers, but as the entrepreneur part of your skillset is to be able to determine signal from noise in the numbers.

To identify the cause-effect relationships that make the key numbers move.

Quantum Mastermind is my highest level training, and most of the community is making 7-figures with 4 people making 8-figures.

It’s a talented group of people who are doing well.

You’d think we get into super advanced things at this event?

What’s funny is, we often focus on removal.

Removal of complexity, of too many low-yield activities, of business objects, and of trying (and failing) to watch too many non-critical metrics.

This approach to metrics is how I was able to take to record profit in 2019, while doing less.

In this snippet from our most recent Quantum event, I’ll show you how this approach to metrics works, and how to use it for yourself to keep more of what you make starting immediately.

Here’s what we cover:

1. Why NOT to look at too many metrics, and the difference between local metrics VS global metrics. (powerful method).

2. The 1 daily financial metric I watch like a hawk.

3. Why you must maniacally monitor expenses and eliminate all “giraffes” (method from the Leveraged Buyout Industry).

4. Why you should look at your best and worst months and ask “WHY”!

5. The 1 critical operational question I ask daily.

6. The ONLY 2 activities cause record profit months (or catastrophic losses) in an online course or coaching business.

7. My predictions on the future of the online course industry in a RECESSION.

Quantum Mastermind

Quantum Mastermind is our highest level training, it shows you how to scale to 8-figures by focusing on the things that matter and ignoring the things that don’t.

We hyper-systemize your business, environment, mind and routine to the nth degree so that you can humiliate the competition.

Interested in joining?

Schedule a free discovery call with our team by going to and mention in your pre-call survey that „I’d like to learn more about Quantum Mastermind“.

Check it out and let me know what you think in the comments?

To Your Success!

Sam Ovens & the team at

Want to get notified when I release new videos? Subscribe to my YouTube channel here.


					When it comes to metrics, why do you want to talk about that?

[inaudible 00:00:19].


[inaudible 00:00:22] cash flow [inaudible 00:00:23].

What else?

Tracking employees.


Tracking employees.

Health and wellness of the business.

I just want to understand how you [inaudible 00:00:38].


The thing with metrics is this ... The problem I notice most people have with it is they look at too much shit. That's definitely what people do. If you look at your ... The goal with metrics is to make it as simple as possible. Like, really good investors, when they come to an investment decision, if it is made on any more than three critical assumptions and three figures, they will not do it. It has to be based on something simple because it's hard to actually know anything and measure anything and get it really right and really check yourself. You know what I mean? If it's built on a labyrinth of shit, chances are you're going to get it wrong.

Those three things, are they the same all the time, or [crosstalk 00:01:40].

No. But I'm saying about an investor that's investing in something like ... It'll be on three critical assumptions. Even when we broke Amazon down to some critical things, you can see why it's successful: fastest shipping, lowest prices, wider selection, cheaper shipping. You get those things right, you know what's going to happen. You know what I mean? They're measurable, too, and it's not vague. You can't say, "We're the most customer obsessed." and you hear stories of them in the market, and their customers.

When do you know you should ask somebody for a testimonial?

When they've had success. You should ask them right then.

So, like after they rang the bell or posted in the group they made 100K, or something like that?


All right. Mm-hmm (affirmative), cool.

Is that your system of receiving testimonials from your clients? I know you have a couple thousand of them from Consulting Accelerator alone, so I was wondering what is that process for you to collect those?

Well, I just said to ... I built a new version of the course, and I said I'd give to everyone for free, even ship them a box set, if they transitioned to the new one. Part of that was uploading a testimonial.

I know you mentioned that briefly in Uplevel. I didn't know if there was another way to do that with, I don't know, a smaller group if you haven't given them all an upgrade or, I don't know, [crosstalk 00:12:20]-

The easiest way is, honestly, just if there's people that have success, ask them. You don't need the 3,000. Just ask someone, like, "Hey, man, can you make me a testimonial?" That's how I got most of the main ones, like Andrew Argues and Dave Rogenmosers and a bunch of people who got to seven figures. A lot of those original ones were just because I asked them.

You asked them just for a testimonial, or do you say, "Hey, can you just film a quick video on your phone and upload it here," or give them some link or something?

I just said, "Hey, can you make a video? Just short, on your phone. Doesn't need to be fancy. Just say your name, what you do, and what life was like before joining the course, what it was like during the course, and what it's like after the course. It only needs to be like two or three minutes. Before, during, after, name, niche, business, end." That's it.

Thank you.

With metrics, you want to be careful of too many metrics. If you look at too many numbers, you will not know what's going on, guaranteed. If you look at the wrong numbers, you will also not know what's going on. So, you want to limit the amount of numbers you look at. I look at very few, and one I care about more than anything else by a mile. That one would just be the net cash flow. We'll start with defining that.

I want to look at this daily. It's from yesterday's data. Banks will typically have pending stuff during the day, but then overnight, bunch of things have fallen into line items. I just look at basically month to date, what is the total flow of cash into a bank account, list the total flow of cash out of bank account. Right?

Now, how you can get yourself into trouble here is when you have a shit load of different bank accounts, and a PayPal account, maybe seven of them, and credit cards, maybe six credit cards, six PayPals, four banks with six accounts per bank. Don't do that to yourself because this'll take you 10 hours to figure out every day, and it will still probably be wrong. I only have to look at really two bank accounts.

Mm-hmm (affirmative)?

Do you accept PayPal for your courses?

No, but if someone emails and they ask, then we'll support it or we'll tell them, "Yeah, send it to this account." Or if it's a strategy session, they might say, "Send it to this account." It's there for like a last catch, but it's not a main method. You don't know you can pay with it.

When it goes into the balance ... I accept PayPal, so the balance gets pretty high. I'm sure a lot of people [inaudible 00:16:04] so the balance gets pretty high-

What's pretty high?

Like 200K.

Yeah, don't do that.

That's what I'm saying. My question was if you did accept PayPal, how do you ... As soon as the money goes into PayPal, do you move it into your account? But since you [crosstalk 00:16:23]-

I would always move it out because they locked half a million bucks of mine for like six months once. I'm pretty sure I still have 50 grand that I can't get out from like two years ago or some shit because I don't have enough time. I really despise that company. They're terrible, honestly.

There's a way to do it daily [inaudible 00:16:48] they don't make it easy to find.

[inaudible 00:16:51].

Actually, it's not. [inaudible 00:16:53].

[inaudible 00:16:55].

Yeah. You could do it [inaudible 00:16:59] end of every day, midnight [inaudible 00:17:01].

Do you not use Stripe? Do you use PayPal-

No, I use Stripe, and it's 60/40, Stripe/PayPal.

Got it.

I would never feel too comfortable relying too much on PayPal. I know so many stories of people getting screwed. Stripe on the other hand, I've never had a problem with them.

Do you know if a refund ... You know how there's that ... I don't know what term they use. That 1.5% threshold where Stripe gets a bit concerned about your account because of-


I don't know what that term-


Chargeback. Does a refund count as a chargeback?

No. Doesn't.

So, what [crosstalk 00:17:51]-

But if they've already done a chargeback and then you refund it, that's still a chargeback. That's still a chargeback, yes, because they did a chargeback.


If they ask for a refund and then you give them a refund, that's not a chargeback.

From time to time, I'll make a sale, I'll know it's a fraudulent transaction from a couple of attributes, right? They always buy on a pay plan, so it's someone who wants to copy, or something like that. I instantly refund if I think that, but is that fraudulent transaction, if I don't pick it up, a chargeback?

If they do a chargeback?



So, I don't actually have full control of that metric.

No, but they've designed that metric so that generally, the only reason you'd be over that is if you're doing something sketchy.

Yeah. It's just the cost of doing business on the internet, but if your chargeback rate's over like 1.5%, you're doing something wrong and you will have big problems.

What's your process of [inaudible 00:19:44] if someone says, "I don't know, man. I just want my money back." Do you just give it back or do you fight it if there's contract and they [crosstalk 00:19:48]-

Well, there's a refund policy. If they asked within like two weeks, then we'll ask them to provide some evidence of them taking action because it's action based. But ultimately, if they haven't, and they still insist, and they're within two weeks, we'll refund them.

After the two weeks, if they say [inaudible 00:20:12] refund policy [inaudible 00:20:13] some negative reviews or things like that, do you fight that?

If someone was like that, we'd probably just refund them.

Oh, so you're not going to fight it.

It's not worth it. People can do more harm than a refund.

We've seen if we give any friction with the refund or something like that, something will pop up on a blog the next day. That just hurts us so much because the buyers, they do their research before. If they find any sort of shady shit, they're going to be repelled, right?

[inaudible 00:20:52].

Yeah, we did. Sometimes I respond to them. Like, one guy's not even a customer, he's leaving us bad reviews. I called him out.

Is your [inaudible 00:21:05] trademarked?

Pardon me?

Is your program trademarked?

Not in the US, but in Canada, yeah.

I removed all my negatives by just doing trademark because I trademarked [inaudible 00:21:16].

Technically, they don't have to remove it.

Yeah, but [inaudible 00:21:24] because it's [crosstalk 00:21:25]-

You'll find someone that will be a bit smarter, and they'll be like, "Fuck you. You can't do anything." And you can't. I wouldn't worry about trying to get rid of things. There's a bunch of people out there that try to get their start from trying to prey on other people.

Most of them are competitors. They just latch onto you, and then they take everybody [inaudible 00:21:52].

Yeah, that's what happened. It's competitors.

It's affiliate too. It's like-

Yeah, but they're never going to win, so who cares? Someone who's doing that as a strategy, I'd almost laugh. That's not even a strategy.

I just called them out in the blog thread. I was like, "This guy is a competitor, clearly not as good, zero case studies." I just tore apart his funnel. Then the guy emailed me back, apologized, emailed the blog person. They took the whole thread down.

I wouldn't even look because if they make me spend one minute of time, then they've harmed me in some way. If I don't even know, they haven't touched me, or they haven't wasted any of my time. I know in the long term, I will still win, against them for sure. That's satisfying enough for me. I just ignore it. I don't even look because if I did look, then I would worry. No one has enough discipline to look and not worry, so the only solution is not to look. The only exception to that is if it's customers, actual ones. You have to look at that. That's a legitimate concern. If in my customer group people were saying shit, I'd read all of that. But if it's just a bunch of idiots just talking all sorts of nonsense, I don't even look. People say negative stuff about everyone. Just Google like anyone that's ever done anything, and you'll find thousands of things.

[inaudible 00:23:50] sales calls, like [inaudible 00:23:53] program [inaudible 00:23:58] as an objection, would that be a concern?

I don't know. That never really popped up as an objection for me. What do you guys do?

[inaudible 00:24:13] because I lost [inaudible 00:24:30] but I'll make sure that I understand that [inaudible 00:24:43] I'll tell them whether it's actually from a customer or not. Almost always, it's never actually from a customer. It's just from people that are pissed off online, and then I'll just express that point and then let it sit with them. If they want to come and buy, they buy, but if not, it's no big deal.

If you look hard enough, you'll see my customers at war with the people. I don't even have to get involved. That's what happens if you don't get involved. I never engage in any of those, but now when I look at some of those things, my customers are in there being like, "This is bullshit." That's a good sign. You just let that happen. But I'm never going to get involved because you almost look guilty when you get involved. You know what I mean? If you don't-

[crosstalk 00:25:32] be bothered deleting it. [inaudible 00:25:34] record.

Yeah, and I would never delete, ever, because that's the ultimate sign of guilt. Like, oh shit, this can't be here. No, I just leave it all there because if you really didn't care and it really wasn't true, then why would you even delete it?

I took your advice on that, yeah, [inaudible 00:25:59] I do the same. I just don't care, but the people I work with really care about their negative comments, and I tell them-

Everyone will go through that when they're a beginner, you know? When you're a normal civilian, generally no one says anything about you on the internet.

That's right.

But when you're no longer a civilian and you're reaching hundreds of thousands or, in my case, we've served hundreds of millions of impressions, there's bound to be a whole bunch of stuff. That's normal. If you can't handle that, then you're not cut out for it.

[inaudible 00:26:42]?

Yeah, but that doesn't really do anything. There's freedom of speech, right? Like, Donald Trump couldn't trademark his name, which is already trademarked, and then say, "No one can talk about me."

I was just saying like-

That doesn't work.

... for people that would potentially rip off your stuff.


If someone's trying to rip off your stuff or clone it or whatever.

That's not even really a trademark thing. That's more like copyright, IP kind of thing. That's a problem with online courses. You should fight it. We have a contractor that works with us that actively takes things down. These are the pirated things. We actively go after all of those and take them down, and close their PayPal accounts, and freeze things. We actively fight that, but we don't do anything about people that just say, "Oh, I don't like that guy." They're allowed to say whatever they want, but when someone's stealing our shit and trying to sell it, that's different.

[inaudible 00:27:54]?

No. You don't need to be trademarked. If someone's legitimately selling your things illegally, PayPal will rip them apart.

Tell me more about that. I've had my stuff copied, and you can buy it, 90 bucks. What do you say, how do you go after these people?

You can't, really. You can only just get it taken down.

But how do you do that?

Well, there's the DMCA, Digital Millennium Copyright Act. You've probably seen some things at the bottom of Google that says stuff's removed?


You need a DMCA takedown contractor, basically. What they basically do is they set up keywords. What's the one we use that's ... Pardon?

[inaudible 00:28:48].

It's called Czar, or something. Something czar. Takedown Czar, or something.

[inaudible 00:28:59].

Have you heard of this? Does anyone know what I'm talking about?

How much is it?

We pay that company like 500 bucks a month, and then I'm pretty sure we pay ... We've got another guy we pay, an individual guy, probably like two grand a month. We only spend about two and a half grand a month on that. We don't fix that problem, but we make it hard. That's all you can really do.

How do you go about taking out their PayPal account? Because that's what this guy does. Is someone physically, on your behalf, writing to PayPal, telling the story-

He just figures out what ... Like, he wants to be a customer, knows what the PayPal account is, and then goes around to PayPal and reports it. They freeze the account. Then they create a new one, and we freeze the new one. We just keep relentlessly just fucking with them until they stop selling our course.

Do you sue them as well?


If you know who it is, do you sue them?

Do you know how hard it is to sue somebody?

So, you just warn them and then-

It's a big job. It's going to take some years and a shit load of money and a lot of time, so you don't do that for that.

We knew one guy, we talk about, okay, if we show that we have no [inaudible 00:30:25] then people won't do it [inaudible 00:30:29].

Honestly, you should just have a contractor that takes stuff down, but that's all you should do. If you're thinking about it ... I honestly don't think about it at all. In the last month, it hasn't even been a thought because you're mostly going to get results by just focusing on your customer, making your product better, hiring good people, watching your cash flow. Not dealing with that. That's a loser activity. Same with reading people's negative comments and engaging, loser job.

Where did you hire that contractor from?

He was one of our customers. I think it's called Takedown Czar. T-Z-A-R, or however you spell that czar word.

[inaudible 00:31:39].

There's people that do it, and then there's ... You could Google DMCA takedown contractor, or something. It's a big thing. Movies have to do it, right? Record labels have to do it. There's a lot of people that have to deal with this thing. If you spend more than one hour ... You shouldn't even spend one hour a month. This is a petty thing.


[inaudible 00:32:12] metrics [inaudible 00:32:14]?

Well, first of all, does everyone know how to calculate this one? Because this is really the only one I look at. You need to be able to calculate this daily. It gets difficult when you have multiple bank accounts and if you have credit cards and PayPals and things, or Venmo, or God knows what other things there are. You need to really simplify it. You should only really have one checking account, one bank account, and one credit card linked to that one checking account with one company. If you have any more than that, that's too complicated and you won't be able to do the books.

[inaudible 00:33:01] savings accounts? Like, you just have all the money [inaudible 00:33:10] into one massive account?

I have more accounts than that, but I also have a full-time accountant. I'm talking about if you're going to do this shit yourself, you might have your personal bank account with one account and then your company account. You don't need a savings account separate from that. What's the point?

Well, I have one savings account that's a long-term business savings account that money's automatically moved into. I have another savings account that I think of as money to pay taxes with so that the number I'm seeing in my checking account is always sort of assumed that taxes has been taken out of that. [crosstalk 00:33:52].

I would just calculate that in my head. I wouldn't create new accounts because the problem I have with multiple accounts is you're trying to figure out, "Hey, what was that one going out of that and into that? Then what was that one going out of that and into that?" Then when you go to try and reconstruct this thing, it's a real complexity. They're not flows of income. They're also not outflows of expense. These are just movements of money around. You know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah.

It gets confusing. Also, we don't even use a credit card. I just have a debit card so that way if I have an expense, it's gone out of the account, so what I see is always what I get.

Did you use a finance company to finance [inaudible 00:34:45]?



[inaudible 00:34:50]?

Well, I don't know anyone that's actually done that and actually been able to show me something.

Like PayPal credit, for example [inaudible 00:35:05].

PayPal credit we accepted when we accepted PayPal, but then that ended up in our PayPal account getting frozen. It's then I realized that it was best just not to accept PayPal because I don't like complexity. That thing took weeks of my time. I'm not going to go down that avenue again just for a little increase in conversion rate. Plus, if people do refunds or disputes, now you've got to manage disputes in multiple locations. If it's in Stripe, it's all in Stripe, and it's simple.

But if it's in bloody PayPal, they've got two ways to do it, once through the PayPal system and then once with their credit card company. It's a shit storm. Then if you have a lot of scale and your support people now need access to PayPal, and they're moving things, there goes your time. Now you're done. Honestly, that's how it happens. It just gets you like that. You have to just simplify and fight back the complexity. It's like, could we get a finance company? Yeah, we probably could, but no. Do we use the PayPal thing? No. No, no, no. Fighting it back.

[inaudible 00:36:20] or not, like a financing company?

Yeah, he was talking about it.

Yeah, one of the calls. He mentioned it.

People have told me it, but no one's showed me it.

Do y'all do monthly payment plans or anything?

No, they're all right. You should try to do as little of them as possible. It's better to get money upfront, but they're not that bad. You want to know ... The problem I have with credit cards is let's say you've got your checking account, and let's say it's got 100 grand in it. Then let's say you get a Stripe thing come in every day, and the next day, 20 grand extra comes in. You've got 120 grand. You're like, "Oh, I've got 120 grand. Things are going good."

But you might have accumulated 50 grand on your card, and it's not showing in there. Do you know what I mean? It gives you this false sense of what's going on. Sure, you could go and read the credit card thing, and then you could go and read that one and then do a bit of math, but I'm already like, "Fuck the points." I would rather have simplicity. I'll take simplicity over points any day.

That's why we hook up Facebook and AdWords directly to our bank account. We don't do that one through a card because that card, if it declines, which it always does because of the forward protection thing, not because it doesn't have money ... In America, they lock cards all the time. The biggest concern was that my media boss would be like, "Holy shit, ads have stopped. Got to call up the bank and got to deal with them and unlock it." It causes mayhem, so we just removed that and just linked it straight up to the account. It never, ever, ever declines. It's impossible. Unless you don't have any money.


You don't have a billing threshold where you have it set up that way, right? It just bills you every single day?

It does bill you cleaner because you don't get them every $500 or every thousand or five grand, or something. It just does one, which makes your life easier when you're doing your books because each day has a transaction. You don't get 50 pages of Facebook transactions. You want to try to reduce the complexity as much as you possibly can. Our bank statements now are four pages a month.

That's not that bad.

Yeah. They used to be about 200. I've really worked to make it simple. Stripe only sends one a day, just ... The ads only come out one a day. We're only using like two channels. Then payroll happens like once every two weeks. What other stuff is there? Then you've just got some Amazon things, and then you've got some rent, and then you've got a couple of just purchase things you did. It's not really that complicated, but people make it complicated.

You want to simplify this so you can figure this out. Most people couldn't figure out what their net cash flow is with two days. If I gave them two days, they still wouldn't be able to figure out that number because they've even got some credit cards they forgot they had. It's wild. You should not use the debt. I don't have any of it, zero.

You work out the cash in, the cash out, and you get a number that's either going to be minus or positive. Good. Not so good. Day to day, right? If you're looking at it from a week to week or a month to month, at the month-to-month level it's good/bad. On a daily basis, it's all right, but when it's over a week, you've got to watch that. If it goes a month like that, you've got to really watch that. Day to day, though, you don't need to worry if one day you make less than another because if rent and payroll and all of these things run on one day, or you have a one-off purchase thing that's quite expensive, you'll have some days that are in the red.

Then why do you check that?


If it doesn't really matter for that specific day, what's the purpose of checking it daily versus weekly [inaudible 00:41:41] or what are you trying to see?

Well, for one, you're trying to understand what goes out and what goes in. Just so you know, because you might be like, "Wait, what's that?" You want to spot it when it happens so you can cut it.

Doesn't your accountant do that already [inaudible 00:42:01]?

Yeah, but he isn't in the position that I'm in. He might think some software, for example, is necessary, but I might see it and I might be like, "We don't need that." Or something might not make sense. If you keep your eye on the flows, you'll get a good reading.

When they're doing business turnarounds, people that buy distressed assets, and then they come in and they turn them around ... There's this guy in New Zealand called Graham Hart who's worth like $15 billion or something, started from zero. He buys distressed assets using leveraged buyouts and then turns them around. He's never done an interview ever, except he recently did one two years ago that I watched. He talks about what he does. One of the first things he does is he takes over all of the ... he controls the money in and out. No one has a card, no one has a checkbook. If anyone wants to buy anything, they've got to come to him. Then he signs all the checks. He controls the flow.

He has this funny story. He said that one company he bought, someone came to him. An invoice came in, and person brought it to him. It was for like $250,000, and it was for the sponsorship of a giraffe at a zoo that the company had been paying for, for ages. Here's the saying that there's always a giraffe somewhere. He said you have to look because there's always a giraffe, always. There's multiple of them. There's all sorts of shit going on. There's more of it when you get bigger. You need to maintain that visibility. This is a really simple way to keep that visibility. Make sense?


Because you want to catch things. It's easy to fix things when you catch them on the day, right? But when it's like a week?

I look at that number, and if it's going good, that's good. If it's not going so good day to day, I don't mind. If it's a month it isn't so good, then I'm like, "Why?" Generally, if this number's good, we just keep going. But if over like a week or a month it's not good, then I ask the question, "Why?"

Actually, I look at both extremes.

If you look at your best month and you also look at your worst, and you ask why, you'll learn a lot. I know all of ours. They've taught me some of the biggest lessons. I know what they look like, so I can spot the trends earlier when one of those things is going on. You know what I mean? For example, I learned in January last year ... Yes, January last year, we lost, in one single month, half a million bucks. I think that's the most we've ever lost in a single month. That was the worst. And why? We changed the webinar, we swapped it out. We were running the new version, and then we changed it back to the old one. Then we were indecisive and we changed it again. It caused mayhem.

Basically, I had this visualization of ... We are on this little island here with a tree surrounded by some ocean. All right? There's a pipe that has food in it. When you have a pipe, one that passes you food on an island, never, ever, ever fuck with the pipe. Ever, ever. That was like our main ... We weren't selling another product. We were just selling Accelerator, and we were spending a lot of money on ads. There was no other way we could receive money because we had nothing else to sell. There was no way anyone could even buy Accelerator without going through the webinar. So, we had one pipe, and we screwed with it. It caused mayhem. I learned never, ever, ever fuck with the pipe.

That's why you'll never see me change landing pages and stuff, unless it's no longer the main pipe. You never screw with the main pipe. When you've got another main pipe and then another main pipe, you can start to screw with one of the pipes, but don't do it when you've only got one. You really shouldn't screw with this at all. If it's working, leave. If it's not working, you don't have much to lose because it's not working, there's no food coming in. You've got no risk to fuck with it. But if it's working, I've learned you've got more chance of doing harm than good. So, just keep your hands away from it.


We're making the jump from the ... We have a converting VSL that's getting a lot of applications, but our schedules are maxed with three reps. The solution was either hire a bigger team or basically switch to the JIT. We just completed the JIT, got the funnel, everything's running, we just haven't turned on traffic. Would you just keep running traffic to the VSL and then another channel would be the JIT? I guess that's the obvious answer, right, is to-

I didn't give you this example to say build multiple pipes. I said if you only have one, there's nothing wrong with only having one, just don't fuck with it.

In this case, the VSL, it's capped, and we have to make the decision to either fully jump to the JIT, which runs the risk of it not converting as well.

Is your VSL working?

Yes, but we can't scale past.

Also, we tested a raise in price, and it was massive decline in conversions.

All right, well, we can troubleshoot this thing. This will bring us into some other metrics, but it really ... I'll get to your story in a sec. Why I'm showing you this simple thing is that this is really as simple as it needs to be. You look at this, and then if it's negative, you ask why. Then you learn not to do that again. You should catch it early. You also need to look at these, your best months, and you ask why. You look back at it. You need a contrast of both, some down ones and some positive ones. Then you ask the question why. Then the best thing to do is look at what you did.

The best thing I've got that tells me that is my war map. You know that thing I use? Do people use it? That thing is responsible for a lot of my success. It's just a Google sheet that I turned into a calendar. I look back at that month in there, and it says all of the things I did. If I didn't do something, I wouldn't have left it on that sheet. I would have moved it forward. Only things that are done are on those cells in there.

I look back and I'm like, "What did we do in this month?" It tells me everything. I looked at our best month ever, which was January this year, which was pretty much the inverse of ... It was precisely the inverse of this. It was like three million revenue and half a million net cash profit, so it was the precise opposite. Then I looked at what we did. I sent the most emails I've ever sent.

I know because I also had to upgrade my sending limit on ActiveCampaign past 10 million a month. I got the email history of it. That was the first time I ever went near the limit of my account, and I had to get it unlocked. I segmented my list and started mailing Accelerator people towards Uplevel, and then leads, I started emailing to both Uplevel and Accelerator in a one on, one off, one on, one off. I segmented it and I started sending like two emails a day, one to each segment. I did that for a whole month, and I sent the most emails I'd ever sent.

I also did one blog video a week each week that was quite high quality. We also had some ads running. That happened on that month. I didn't really know that that was responsible for that month until some month later. It must have been May or something. I was really busy, so I didn't do any blog posts, zero. I didn't send any emails, zero. I think we just didn't make any money. It was just break even, zero.

Then I asked the question why. I looked at my war map. No blog videos, no emails. The ads were running well, and everything was going good there, but the profit had just gone. The only thing that had changed was the emails and the blog videos. It took me all of this to learn just that that was really important. You see what I mean, how I didn't learn it from actually the good month? But I knew what I did in that good month. Then when I didn't do it one month, then I knew what it was. I was like, "Got it."

You need to find out what those little things are, the things that actually move the needle, because there's all sorts of shit in there. There's Instagram stories. I stopped doing those, didn't even see a little ripple. Stopped doing all sorts of stuff and never seen a blip. Then I'm like, "Whoa, I was putting all of that energy into that and nothing happened. Nothing. Just crickets."

[inaudible 00:54:24]?

Social media shit, just like posting and being one of those people on social media. Even the negative stuff or pirate sites, I've never even seen that do shit to the numbers. You know what I mean? There's some things that really move the numbers. Like, the number of strategy sessions, full calendars or not, if the calendars aren't full and people aren't on the phones, yeah, that'll move the numbers. Them email, which is a great way to fill up calendars. You can fill up the calendars so much ... It's so much more easy for me to fill the calendars with an email than it is with Facebook ads. I could fill three reps' calendars for like nine days with one email, done. [inaudible 00:55:35] 250 strategy sessions from an email.

[inaudible 00:55:40] stories?

[crosstalk 00:55:41] contacts?


[inaudible 00:55:44] 400,000 contacts [inaudible 00:55:46]?

Yes, but mostly it's just sending straight to the survey. That was the little trick. Instead of sending to the video, and then the video has the survey, I just cut out that middle link and went straight to the survey. That's how you get 20 times the output.

If you need to fill the ... That's another thing I check daily. James, who's my accountant, will give me this number. Then I'll go to Jesse. I'll message Jesse and I'll be like, "Jesse, are the calendars full? Question mark." He'll say yep or no. If they're full, I'll be like, "Cool." I know I don't really need to send an email. If he's like, "No, but they're almost full, so I don't know if you should send an email to everyone," I might cut off a segment of 20,000 and email it to them. Just with that, I know I can fill up the balance.

I need to get two numbers. This one to know if ... This is like a vital sign. Then I need to go to Jesse and be like, "Are the calendars full?" He'll tell me. Then I know that my main instrument to fill them is an email.

Why aren't you hiring more reps?

Because we don't really need to.

[inaudible 00:57:10] calendars [inaudible 00:57:17].

Yeah, but we only learned this trick recently. We haven't been able to full calendars consistently for a long period of time. Once I know that we can do it for months, then I will have the confidence to add more reps.

When you're asking Jesse if the calendar's full, how far out are you specifically referring to?

Jesse, when I ask you if the reps' calendars are full, how far out are you looking?

I'll look four, sometimes five days out because [inaudible 00:57:59] typically four days [inaudible 00:58:00].

We've been using that email strategy that's responsible [inaudible 00:58:13] 30% for strategy sessions [inaudible 00:58:17] one of the reasons that you're able to [inaudible 00:58:21] calendar with one email because you're adding new leads [inaudible 00:58:25] drastically cut your ad budget and stop, or reduce the number of people coming in, aren't you going to run out of people [crosstalk 00:58:33]-

That's why we haven't fully stopped running ads.

But you drastically minimize them, going from 40,000 [crosstalk 00:58:41]-

Most of that was going to Accelerator. It's got nothing to do with, really, calls.

What does that mean? I don't understand.

Most of that money was being ... We were always only spending about one and a half grand a day on Uplevel ads, but most of that 40 was Accelerator.

Isn't the biggest source of your clients with Uplevel Accelerator?


I see, okay. That makes sense then, yeah.

What percentage do you think Accelerator upsells make up of Uplevel sales?

[inaudible 00:59:18].

The numbers start to make sense, but it's complicated, right?

Someone asked earlier would you mind sharing your free trial numbers [inaudible 00:59:45].

Sure, I can do that. I will make a note to do that. Did I solve your one? No, I didn't do your one either.

[inaudible 00:59:58].

[inaudible 01:00:02] directly into the schedule. Do you find that there are any unqualified people [crosstalk 01:00:08]-

Hold on. Your question was to do with what?

Free trial.

We're starting to get pulled into the weeds. I will get to the weeds, but you're never really going to create much ... you're never really going to get a big win and you're not going to avoid a big loss if you look in the weeds. You know what I mean? The main things you want to look at are out here, at these big things. All I honestly need to do each day to make sure that the company's going to work is look at the cash flow and then look at the calendars. Are they full? If they're not, I send an email, and then they are. Then I'm basically done.

If that happens, then also the reps need to do those calls and stuff. We need to make sure the operations work, and the support tickets get done, and things that are happening in new projects are being built out, and all of that. In terms of the day-to-day operations, that's about as simple as it is.


What's your strategy [inaudible 01:01:21]?

I don't really know if we will. What we notice is that people aren't really unsubscribing, people are trying to get on, and people like it. It's not like we're selling people relentlessly on the list. We're really just keeping on making ... That's why the blog video is crucial.

[crosstalk 01:01:54].

A lot of your material's [crosstalk 01:01:56].

Yeah. I make sure the large majority of the stuff is helpful and valuable. You only burn something out if you're taking more than giving. Also, we're still getting people to join our list, lots. Even organically, it's hundreds a day. Then we've got refer a friend entering people in and Accelerator buyers, all sorts of stuff going on. So, the list is getting replenished. We don't email people that aren't engaged, so we're not harming our reputation with the ISPs. We provide value in the emails, so there's a real reason for people to stay on. We get a lot from YouTube too, flowing in like that. YouTube surprised me. I don't have many subscribers at all. I think-

Like 68,000.

Yeah, which according to most YouTubers, I suck.

Is there a call to action in every one of your YouTube videos?

No. I would make more money from my YouTube subscribers at 68,000 than many would at multiple millions. The only reason why someone follows my stuff, it's not very entertaining. Some dude and a whiteboard. There's no music, there's no woman, there's no cars. There's no fucking anything. It's a dude and a whiteboard talking about some business. That's the reason why I don't have many subscribers, but it's also the reason why I have the right ones. If you look at the numbers, our view count when we do a new video will pretty much match the subscriber count. No one else's thing does that. They might have like four million subscribers. They do a YouTube video, it gets the same number of views that my one does. I'm like, "Something's not right here."

How do you answer the question in a person's mind, where to from here, after they've watched your videos? There must be some call to [crosstalk 01:04:10].

Here's the thing I learned, is that it's more powerful not to put a call to action in the videos than it is to put one in, in those videos, because it's not a funnel video. You need a call to action in one of those, but if you just help someone ... You just read the comments on there, man. If you read the comments on my YouTube channel versus Facebook ads or some crap, there's a different type of human on YouTube.

It's much more positive [inaudible 01:04:42].

It's rare to ever see a negative comment, ever. People, they say that they love me. Honestly, it's kind of strange. I totally underestimated that channel.

You're saying they will find you?

I know they do because they tell me in the comments. They're like, "I'm saving for this right now, I'm going to buy this thing." Then people will say, "Your videos are the reason why I purchased this thing." Then everyone's like, "Me too, me too, me too, me too, me too." It's kind of interesting.

The combination of some ads, because people have to find out about you somehow, some ads, some YouTube videos to stir the pot, and some emails to keep reminding people and even distributing these things, it also brings people back to be on your targeting lists because when I send an email, I link to the blog, which has the YouTube video embedded. They land on the website [inaudible 01:05:50]. Then they fall back into the retargeting bucket, so now they're getting those impressions again. It's all made like this.

[inaudible 01:05:59] if you could give a general what you're doing [inaudible 01:06:07] 400,000 contacts [inaudible 01:06:08] calendars. If you'd just identify how many contacts per calendar? If you're sending like two emails a week, what number would you-

I don't know. Email list is a funny thing. I remember when I had 3,000 people on my list back in New Zealand, and I could do a six-figure product launch like that. Now that I have 1.3 million people on my list, it certainly hasn't held those proportions. You know what I mean? It's very hard to do email broadcast math.

Well, just for you. It's three calendars, and you said there's 400,000 active contacts.

Yeah. Well, if I send an email out to that, I could generate 250 bookings an email.

Per week, right? Or per day?

Well, with an email. I don't know if I could do that every day because I've never tried because there's no need for that, but I know that I can pretty much send one email a week and, in combination with Jesse's ads, fill them.

Some of us are long past ... How does someone find the link to booking a calendar if there's no call to action?

They're a bit smarter than that. You know what I mean? They're like, "Wonder what this guy does. Let's Google him." People find shit out, and they're almost more interested when you don't try to sell them. You know what I mean? It's kind of rare for someone just to actually add some value and not ask for anything back. People learn that really quick. They're like, "Oh, I trust this guy. He's helped me so much for free. I'm just going to buy this thing just to give back." Do you know what I mean?

So, on your site, which I haven't explored, there's an opportunity to ... there's a sales page. Is there another sales page that'll take someone to your calendar? Is that how they're finding it?

They're finding me through all sorts of different ways because we don't give them a direct path. They might go to my website, and then they might see my courses. If they think Accelerator's a fit, they might do a trial. If they think Uplevel's a fit, they'll book a strategy session. If they think Quantum's a fit, they'll book a strategy sessions. Then they'll either end up on a trial or on the phone with one of the reps. Also, if they visit my site, they get retargeted. That follows them around, and then they find their way into the mainline funnel, even though I never directly linked them to it. Do you know what I mean?

Yes, I do.

Where [inaudible 01:09:31]?

To whatever funnel they're for. If it's Accelerated, it'll lead to it the moment of the trial. It would have used to have led to the webinar. Uplevel will lead to a video, I think it's that more with less video, which then goes to a calendar.

This is a little bit off topic, maybe, but it's something that I've been thinking about a lot. What is the best way to destroy your competition other than having the best product? Because I know that's what you'll probably say, having the best product. Maybe the question is should I even focus, should I even look at competition, or no?

Yeah, you should, but you shouldn't fixate, because the only way you know how you measure up is by looking at the competition. Then if you're not the best, then you get to work.

Maybe there's some good books to read on-

No, you just get to work by getting better. You know what I mean? If you are the best, it's actually harder. I find it very ... I love it when I know exactly who I need to get because, fuck, it's so clear. So, I just go. That's easy, but when it's very unclear, it gets hard. You know what I mean? I get quite motivated by competition. That's how I can get myself going. I'll just pick a target.

Yeah, but how do you know what to do with that target?

Figure out what they're doing, do it better. Or think of something they didn't think of, Achilles's heel. Or if they're missing ... Which, most of the time, by the way, is the product. You look at it, and you're like, "Really? Wow. That's not even hard. I thought I'd have to try."

Do you buy competitors' products to study?

No, but I used to when I was learning. I would buy them for myself. If something was supposedly really good, I'd buy it, but I never see something that great. Like, when it comes to software and things, I'll definitely look at what they're doing, but the course space is not very hard, honestly. The average standard of the online course is fucking terrible. If you actually just gave 2% of a shit, you would win. I'm not joking, it's really that easy.

Imagine trying to beat someone's course versus trying to beat Google at search, honestly, or trying to beat SpaceX at getting to Mars or some shit, or Tesla at the electric car, or Apple with the iPhone. Honestly, imagine that. You just have to care a tiny bit, and then you're there. It's quite easy to do that. What's hard, though, is to be ... What I find hard is to be famous, and I also don't want to be. So, I would prefer to play on different terms. You know what I mean?

Not like Tai Lopez? Grant Cardone.

My strategy is often asymmetric warfare. I'll attack what's weak and avoid what's strong. Just go straight for the Achilles. If there isn't one, I won't touch.

[inaudible 01:13:43]?

Well, for an example, I think you always have to believe that you really do have a chance of being the best. You have to know that you're cut out for this challenge. You know what I mean? For example, if it was being the President, I don't think I could do that. I just don't like political crap and being on the TV and talking to people. I'm not going to play that, so I'd never wind up in that competition. I also don't like ones that are fame based. That's why I like winning on value. I like value games, or numbers, and technology. Numbers, technology, and value, I like to play with those things. You've got to know your strengths and make sure that those things will help you be the best at this game.

[inaudible 01:15:05] like Steve Jobs, he ... Not that he wanted to be famous, but [inaudible 01:15:11] whereas Google [inaudible 01:15:13] but most people just google [inaudible 01:15:17] they don't want to be in front of the camera, I guess, a lot of times.

Steve Jobs was a product guy. He knew how to make great products. That's how he won. Google were engineers and they knew distributed systems and search. That's how they won.

We kind of drifted a bit. This simple exercise can ... You need to have some positives and some negatives to spot the pattern, like the example I gave you about the emails and the blog videos. I thought it was all on the ads for a long time, so I never turned them off or turned them down because I thought they were linked perfectly to the profit. When the ads run beautifully for a whole month, and I didn't do a blog video or an email, and the profit went to zero, I was like, "Whoa, wait. What's going on in here?" Then when I put the emails back on in that and I saw it go up again, I was like, "This is the thing that's doing it."

You've got to play with do this thing, watch what happens. Don't do that thing, watch what happens. Do this thing, watch what happens. You've got to keep switching between these different things to know what is the causal agent of the output. Do you know what I mean? Because I guarantee you, the things you think are the causes are not, unless you think it's strategy sessions, because those are.

[inaudible 01:16:57] those are two variables, right? [inaudible 01:16:59] you're sending out blogs and emails at the same time, right? How do you know which one's which?

The thing is is they're linked because in order to send out the emails, I need the blogs.

Right, but then YouTube has a lot of [inaudible 01:17:10] traffic as well.


Could it be just that, or is it maybe people from your email list?

Honestly, the two things are kind of the same, the way I use them, yeah. They're different, but I like both together. They're very much interlinked. Really, if we want to do good, we just need to make sure we send out good emails consistently and make good content consistently. We also have refer a friend, which definitely helps. We have also got a lot of good SEO in organic reach, more than I thought. Then we've got YouTube, which helps a lot. Then a little bit of ads sprinkled in. That does enough.

Sam, in terms of the email, I [inaudible 01:18:10] sending emails that I can see the dip when I don't send emails, and when I send emails, there's a big spike. I noticed that Andrew Argue is now doing a lead magnet ad as one of his primary ads. What's your opinion on list building-

I know that from ... [crosstalk 01:18:32] talked to him recently, and only 10% of his sales derive from ads directly.

Well, I guess that's what I'm saying. What's your opinion on list building-

Email drives [crosstalk 01:18:43].

Right. What's your opinion on list building to get a big email list? For instance, doing a very attractive lead magnet to your avatar to build a list, and then knowing that over time, you have this asset that you can mail to?

It's dangerous. The key is to ... You build an email list as a byproduct of generating appointments and making sales through a normal funnel. You know what I mean? If you spend money driving traffic to a VSL or a JIT or whatever, you're building an email list and you're paying for the ads each day. You don't want to ever be in a situation where you're spending money to generate leads, and hoping that they're going to pay in the future, and accumulating up a deficit. Do you know what I mean? That's dangerous because you don't know. They might buy, they might not, and if they don't, you're screwed.

At least with this one, you're liquidating your cost so you're not going down, but as a byproduct, you're building a list. Then the key with the list is the list is basically useless unless you mail it consistently and add value and produce some content. If you just mail like sell, sell, sell, sell, sell to your list, it'll perish fast.

What do you think about the group coaching model during the recession [inaudible 01:20:24] right?

A group coaching model verse?

Like, during a recession [inaudible 01:20:27] had one [crosstalk 01:20:27]-

I don't know. It'd be wrong of me to say because I think I started my ... I became an entrepreneur in 2009, I think, so I don't know anything about those. I know about recessions, but I've never been through one, so I can't speak from experience. But I can imagine what would happen.

[crosstalk 01:20:57].

[crosstalk 01:20:57] spending dries up. That's what happens, it gets harder to get customers. Also at the same time, prices go down for things, which is kind of good, but only if you've got enough money. The game is like ... It's kind of like musical chairs, just make sure you get a damn chair, honestly. When the music stops, have a chair. Then you can have some fun.

And by chair, you're saying-

[crosstalk 01:21:27] you land on your ass, on the ground.

You're saying cash in the bank?

Yeah. That's the key. It's actually a great time for you if you have money because everything's cheap. I'm sure the ads will get cheaper. I'm sure wages and compensation will go done, hunger for working harder will go up. The prices of assets will go down a lot, you can buy things for cheap. If you're in a good position.

I think the worst thing that gets people is always the lifestyle. That's what gets everybody. If you just work to keep your lifestyle simple and you also have lean cost structure in your business, the thing about ads is you don't need to spend the same amount of money on ads every day. You can reduce that, but you want to be able to keep payroll, rent, and operational expenses. And then your personal life, you need to pay for all of that. You need to know what that number is per month, and you need to be able to easily do that.

What margin do you think we should be running at in the group coaching model, like what percentage do you think?

Depends what you're trying to achieve, like rapid growth at all costs or accumulating cash. There's two modes. If I had less than a million dollars, I would be in storing cash mode.

Would you still feel that way even though you've reduced your Facebook spend so drastically? Like [crosstalk 01:23:21]-

I wouldn't sleep if I had ... Even if I had five million [inaudible 01:23:28], I would still be terrified. I wouldn't even be able to sleep or function. There's a number you have to have to be calm, and that always goes up the more you expand what you're doing. You know what I mean? Plus, I also want to work on projects that have like three-year runways. I need to spend millions on it for a while before it's even going to have a chance to make any money. I'm never going to touch those projects if I don't have good reserves. Those are the projects ...

When you're getting started, I think you need to work really hard to get yourself out of make money now mode because if you're in make money now mode, it's typically because you need to make some money now because you've got a bunch of expenses and shit. So, you're like, "Money now, money now." You can't really build anything that great in that mode, so you really need to work hard to get out of that and develop some space where you can think, "I'm all right now. Everything's covered and looked after. Now what can we do?" You broaden your horizon the more you get yourself out of make money now mode.

That's how also you think long term, by the way. You can't think beyond your reserves, in a way. It's like trying to imagine driving to somewhere far away on reserve tank. You're just not going to do it. You should work hard to build up those cash reserves and then just leave them because the ... I like the psychological benefit of them.

Some people might say, "Oh, that's a waste of money. You could have put in real estate, could have done [inaudible 01:25:34]." Those people are generally poor. Or they'll say you should talk to a financial advisor. That's another one. These people don't have the money, so they don't know. If it was someone that had it, I'd listen. But the psychological advantage of it is immense.

I know it happened to Andrew Argue and stuff too once. You have more than a million in cash after tax, just cleared funds, you think differently. Your balls may grow a bit bigger. I'm not even joking, you do think totally different because you can do new moves and have longer horizons. So, you want to work real hard to get yourself out of the make money now mode. You can't really build some long-term project or spend a lot of time looking for great talent or care about a great culture when you're in make money now mode. Those things require space, and time, and effort, and attention, and energy, and care. You don't have that when you're frantic.

How do you maximize cash flow? Do you have any strategies [inaudible 01:27:20]?

Well, you try to maximize money in and minimum the money out. No shit. That's why I watch it every day. You look at everything. Honestly, the best place to cut it is in your personal life most of the time because your personal life is very, very inefficient because if you spend money, then that's income money.

Let's say you buy some fancy car and the car costs like 100K. I learned this the hard way. That 100K, to get it out of the company, it needs to go through the tax barrier. That's going to really be like 150K, really. So, you're not really burning that, you're burning that. Then you're buying something that basically is immediately going to be worth like 80, and then it's going to depreciate down. Then it's going to require insurance and repairs and shit, which is going to add to its loss.

Also, this 150K could have been fed back into the machine, and that could have really turned into 400K. But it didn't. It's now turned into 80K that's going down. You're already looking at like 320 grand loss on month two, really.

The biggest way you get done with this is then to enjoy this piece of shit. You've got to use it, and that takes your time. So, you're getting fucked on like eight dimensions. Honestly, it really makes ... When I started to look at it that way, I was like, "I hate this thing. Get it out of my life immediately." Whereas if you leave it in, it doesn't pass the tax barrier.

You still get the corporate tax, but that's a lot less. Then you can keep feeding it back around and growing it so it gets less tax and it grows instead of shrinks. Then it doesn't take up all your time and need insurance and maintenance, and it doesn't have depreciation. Do you see what I mean about that's how you get really done on the personal life? That's the one that gets you. The smaller you shrink that, that's a great way to ... Plus, you don't have any stress.

[inaudible 01:30:13] ads? Like 80, 90% are ads.

Yeah. Those ones are not ... They're more optional. Why the lifestyle ones are terrible is because you get used to them, and then you've got to keep feeding that beast. Plus, they have a tendency to creep. You know what I mean? You're trying to fight that back too.

Sam, in that example, that's nearly a 3:1 turnaround, 150 to 400. That's really what I'd like to ask about. Right now, we're not getting that 3:1. What could we do best? I know we need better ads, for example. How do we create better ads to get that kind of a turnaround, or how do we optimize our business to get that kind of return on our investment, which we're not getting today?

Well, in a way you kind of are, but you're not seeing it instantly. Think about how much money you're making now compared to how much you were making like a year ago. What was that? What's the difference?

[inaudible 01:31:25].

Yeah, so it's happening, it's just not as immediately visible than you think. How long ago were you making ... you were just getting started?

[inaudible 01:31:37] years ago.

So, you went from zero to seven figures?


You're making some growth, but it's just not as immediately visible. You know what I mean? You're looking at the ads front, but the ads might look like they're not that profitable, and they probably aren't, but you're still growing somehow. I think you've got to really figure out how to ... The best way to get ads to work better is to be very different. No one should be able to scroll through their feed and be like, "You look like everyone else."

And then just adding other channels, like consistent emails, the blogs?

Those will do wonders to profit. They won't move the needle much on revenue, but they'll move profit more than anything else you've ever seen.

[inaudible 01:32:41] making good revenue, but-

Blog videos and emails won't move your revenue, but it'll move up your profit by a shit load. Think about it. It's pure profit, that money, whereas the ads money is like ... got huge cost attached to it.

So, what kind of techniques can we use to create, for example, an effective blog post or send an effective email or-

Well, just look at my ones and you can see what I'm trying to do. I think about the user. I'm like, "What does this person need help with?" Then I just make some video that helps them, and then I send it to them. Then I just keep thinking, "How do I help this person? How do I help this person? How do I help them?" Then every now and then, I just add a little offer in there, like a call to action.

How do you get more cash in? I can tell you for sure, I've known in my business it's the YouTube videos and the emails. Won't move your revenue up, but it'll move your profit more than anything else.

[inaudible 01:33:59] call to action [inaudible 01:34:01] value method?

You do get them?

No. Actually, you said that it was really easy on your website [inaudible 01:34:11].

Yeah. We haven't made that [inaudible 01:34:12] yet. You can just register for the-

[inaudible 01:34:21] I've just got the free course.

You can go to the ... How can you get on the list easily? You could go to ... Just go to the website and then go to Uplevel, the product, and go free demo, and opt in there. That'll get you straight on. Then you'll see them.


What's the transition from me just logging in to the Uplevel and you're trying to get me to watch the video, then you're trying to get me to book a call, then you're trying to get me to be sold on a call, to the value emails? You know what I mean? Like, the automated ones there to just the campaigns that you're broadcasting. Does that make sense?

Yeah, I think I'll follow a campaign. If someone opts in for some funnel, we might try and get them to convert in 14 to 21 days. After that, they just join the broadcast list.

Gotcha. Are you broadcasting to them as well [crosstalk 01:35:13]?

No. Yeah.


Someone goes through there, and we get the people that are ready now. It also funds the whole ad campaign. Then the other ones just join the list, and then that stirs the pot there. Then that feeds back customers.

I'll go through it, so I'll see over the next 21 days, but is it mostly like, hey, just hop back on, or are you doing a value ad in the automated ones or testimonials-

All the automated ones are action based, like watch the video because you didn't watch it, or book a call because you watched the video and you didn't.


Sam, do you send the broadcast [inaudible 01:35:56]?

Accelerator ones, yes. Uplevel ones, we don't have anything to sell them because Quantum, we honestly don't even try. We've never run an ad, we've never sent an email. I don't even talk about it, and we still have to turn people down. So, I don't need to do anything for that.

But for Uplevel, do they get those broadcasts? I do get it because I'm signed up to all your funnels, but the broadcasts, they don't get that, right?

They get the blog videos.

They do?

Yeah. I still give them the value ones, but I don't have anything directly to sell to them.

For the free trial customers, the free trial customers, how much percent of them are converting into paid customers and how many of them are getting into the Uplevel?

The free trial converts like 25% or something, but that number, you can't compare that to like a VSL's 5% or a webinar's 2% because it's very different. We can talk more about that thing tomorrow, but I was trying to ... I've made a note here, free trial and JIT and VSL. We can get into the weeds tomorrow and talk about the different funnels, but I'm trying to tell you how simple I actually ... Do you see how I'm not in the weeds here? I'm not looking at cost-per-click or any of that shit. I never care about cost-per-click unless I have to troubleshoot something.

Going back to what you were saying about being very different, can you [inaudible 01:37:46] through your process for that, how you know that?

Yeah. It's pretty simple. You just want to figure out what everyone's doing, what everyone looks like, what everyone thinks, and then don't do it. Unless it's right, you really think that it's a good idea. The cool thing is most of the time, it doesn't make sense. Like, having nine Lamborghinis and renting jets and having seven mansions, that looks really dumb because of this thing I explained, right? I quite enjoy having my shitty whiteboard and my iPhone and making videos, talking for like 45 minutes about some concepts.

Do you have an iPhone again?


Do you have an iPhone again?


Last Mastermind, you just told you bought an Android.

I tried out Android, but then I moved back to iPhone mostly because of the video camera.

Oh, okay.

The video camera on the ... especially the latest one, it's really good. I don't use any crap. I've got to reduce the friction to making content, so I just use my iPhone to make my videos, and I don't edit at all. I just upload it straight. Done.

[inaudible 01:40:05].


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